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	<title>Comments on: On Transitional Doctype Declarations</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/</link>
	<description>Tips and Commentary on Web Accessibility, Usability, and Search Marketing best practices.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Joe Dolson</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/#comment-933</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Dolson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 18:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/#comment-933</guid>
		<description>That's a fair argument, Stevie - so, for you, HTML is a more logical choice - it matches your internal expectations for code behavior.  

I'm not saying that XHTML is "the right way to go".  I'm more trying to emphasize that there are a multitude of reasons for picking one or the other.  For myself, my own sense of internal consistency suggests XHTML.  

Personally, at least when it comes to the &#60;img&#62; tag, I think that the tag itself is specified poorly.  The img tag should be a container for an image: with an opening sequence and a closing sequence appropriately.  Instead, it was created so the src is referenced as an attribute of the tag.  That's fair - it's also a possibility with the &#60;script&#62; tag. 

I consider the &#60;br&#62; tag to be anomalous: it doesn't really fit with my conception of semantic code because it contains no meaning within the document at all.  I do make use of it, but prefer to minimize that use when I can.

Thanks for your comments!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a fair argument, Stevie - so, for you, <acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym> is a more logical choice - it matches your internal expectations for code behavior.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym> is &#8220;the right way to go&#8221;.  I&#8217;m more trying to emphasize that there are a multitude of reasons for picking one or the other.  For myself, my own sense of internal consistency suggests <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym>.  </p>
<p>Personally, at least when it comes to the &lt;img&gt; tag, I think that the tag itself is specified poorly.  The img tag should be a container for an image: with an opening sequence and a closing sequence appropriately.  Instead, it was created so the src is referenced as an attribute of the tag.  That&#8217;s fair - it&#8217;s also a possibility with the &lt;script&gt; tag. </p>
<p>I consider the &lt;br&gt; tag to be anomalous: it doesn&#8217;t really fit with my conception of semantic code because it contains no meaning within the document at all.  I do make use of it, but prefer to minimize that use when I can.</p>
<p>Thanks for your&nbsp;comments!</p>
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		<title>By: Stevie D</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/#comment-932</link>
		<dc:creator>Stevie D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 18:16:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/#comment-932</guid>
		<description>You say you don't like HTML because it allows stand-alone tags that don't need closing, like [img] and [br] - but that's one of the things I &lt;strong&gt;do&lt;/strong&gt; like about it!

Yes, a paragraph, or a hyperlink or table cell or list item, has clearly defined content and so can sensibly be wrapped in "beginning" and "end" tags. That much makes sense.

But what about line breaks or images? These don't have any content (in the main flow of the document) - you &lt;strong&gt;can't&lt;/strong&gt; put anything between the beginning and end tags! So why not be happy that these are spot tags that mark an instance rather than a section, and need no closing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You say you don&#8217;t like <acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym> because it allows stand-alone tags that don&#8217;t need closing, like [img] and [br] - but that&#8217;s one of the things I <strong>do</strong> like about it!</p>
<p>Yes, a paragraph, or a hyperlink or table cell or list item, has clearly defined content and so can sensibly be wrapped in &#8220;beginning&#8221; and &#8220;end&#8221; tags. That much makes sense.</p>
<p>But what about line breaks or images? These don&#8217;t have any content (in the main flow of the document) - you <strong>can&#8217;t</strong> put anything between the beginning and end tags! So why not be happy that these are spot tags that mark an instance rather than a section, and need no&nbsp;closing?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Joe Dolson</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/#comment-821</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Dolson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/#comment-821</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Mike. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Moreover, I have tried using both before, but I found switching between the two made me think too much. Post-validation and I’d have to go back and fix XHTML boo-boos in HTML documents and vice-versa.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Been there...that definitely influences my decision a fair amount, as well.  It's simply much easier to do all my sites in ONE format - keeps the mind stiff and inflexible.  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Mike. </p>
<blockquote><p>
Moreover, I have tried using both before, but I found switching between the two made me think too much. Post-validation and I’d have to go back and fix <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym> boo-boos in <acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym> documents and vice-versa.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Been there&#8230;that definitely influences my decision a fair amount, as well.  It&#8217;s simply much easier to do all my sites in ONE format - keeps the mind stiff and inflexible.&nbsp;;)</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Cherim</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/#comment-820</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Cherim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Oct 2006 20:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/#comment-820</guid>
		<description>Good article, Joe. I like the points you make up and reside on the matter where you do. I like your mention of the anchor target attribute. People use an XHTML Transitional DTD oftentimes to allow its continued use. But guess what, folks, there's a reason that is being pushed to the wayside. It's no longer cool to spawn new windows, mixing behavior into the mark-up. It shouldn't be used on a publicly accessible website (an intranet or browser-based CMS might be good exceptions). 

My main reason to use the XHTML Strict DTD over HTML strict -- which I do exclusively, even though I serve my documents as text/html -- is that it puts me that much closer to the day when I change my site's MIME types to a supported version of XML. Moreover, I have tried using both before, but I found switching between the two made me think too much. Post-validation and I'd have to go back and fix XHTML boo-boos in HTML documents and vice-versa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article, Joe. I like the points you make up and reside on the matter where you do. I like your mention of the anchor target attribute. People use an <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym> Transitional <acronym title="Document Type Definition">DTD</acronym> oftentimes to allow its continued use. But guess what, folks, there&#8217;s a reason that is being pushed to the wayside. It&#8217;s no longer cool to spawn new windows, mixing behavior into the mark-up. It shouldn&#8217;t be used on a publicly accessible website (an intranet or browser-based <acronym title="Content Management System">CMS</acronym> might be good exceptions). </p>
<p>My main reason to use the <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym> Strict <acronym title="Document Type Definition">DTD</acronym> over <acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym> strict&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;which I do exclusively, even though I serve my documents as text/html&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;is that it puts me that much closer to the day when I change my site&#8217;s MIME types to a supported version of <acronym title="eXtensible Markup Language">XML</acronym>. Moreover, I have tried using both before, but I found switching between the two made me think too much. Post-validation and I&#8217;d have to go back and fix <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym> boo-boos in <acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym> documents and&nbsp;vice-versa.</p>
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		<title>By: Emma</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/#comment-816</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Oct 2006 10:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/#comment-816</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the extended explanation! I've always wanted that question answered, and now it has been.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the extended explanation! I&#8217;ve always wanted that question answered, and now it has&nbsp;been.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joe Dolson</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/#comment-777</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Dolson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/#comment-777</guid>
		<description>Well, first there's the fact that a browser which receives your XHTML sent as text/html will read it as HTML - so, from a rendering perspective, it's malformed HTML rather than well-formed XHTML. 

Some would argue that this means all supposedly valid XHTML sites are actually invalid, because they are processed as broken HTML: I don't agree, because I believe that the validity of code is inherent to the structure of the code, not to the rendering capabilities of the user agent.  The fact that a user agent can't accept my code doesn't necessarily make my code invalid. 

Also, since the browser reads your source as HTML, you can't take advantage of many of the XHTML modular namespaces: MathML, XHTML-MP, or custom made namespaces.  Since part of the whole point of using XHTML is the fact that it's parsable in XML, NOT being able to use this XML spaces is a bit inconvenient.

The fact is, this downsides to serving as text/html are pretty esoteric - if you've written valid XHTML and served it as text/html AND tested your site thoroughly in a wide range of browsers, you're just fine.  If you want to add any extra functionality by adding additional XHTML modules, you'll have to switch. 

And, if you decide to switch to serving application/xhtml+xml at any point - you'll have to check over your site again, very thoroughly, in all browsers, because the rendering is likely to change.

Well...that was practically a whole new post...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, first there&#8217;s the fact that a browser which receives your <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym> sent as text/html will read it as <acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym> - so, from a rendering perspective, it&#8217;s malformed <acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym> rather than well-formed <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym>. </p>
<p>Some would argue that this means all supposedly valid <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym> sites are actually invalid, because they are processed as broken HTML: I don&#8217;t agree, because I believe that the validity of code is inherent to the structure of the code, not to the rendering capabilities of the user agent.  The fact that a user agent can&#8217;t accept my code doesn&#8217;t necessarily make my code invalid. </p>
<p>Also, since the browser reads your source as <acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym>, you can&#8217;t take advantage of many of the <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym> modular namespaces: MathML, <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym>-MP, or custom made namespaces.  Since part of the whole point of using <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym> is the fact that it&#8217;s parsable in <acronym title="eXtensible Markup Language">XML</acronym>, NOT being able to use this <acronym title="eXtensible Markup Language">XML</acronym> spaces is a bit inconvenient.</p>
<p>The fact is, this downsides to serving as text/html are pretty esoteric - if you&#8217;ve written valid <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym> and served it as text/html AND tested your site thoroughly in a wide range of browsers, you&#8217;re just fine.  If you want to add any extra functionality by adding additional <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym> modules, you&#8217;ll have to switch. </p>
<p>And, if you decide to switch to serving application/xhtml+<acronym title="eXtensible Markup Language">XML</acronym> at any point - you&#8217;ll have to check over your site again, very thoroughly, in all browsers, because the rendering is likely to change.</p>
<p>Well&#8230;that was practically a whole new&nbsp;post&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Emma</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/#comment-776</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2006/09/on-transitional-doctype-declarations/#comment-776</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In order to actually deliver XHTML, the MIME type application/xhtml+XML or text/xml is required. Without this MIME type, the advantages of XHTML are irrelevant.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What advantages do you lose by serving it as text/html instead of application/xhtml+xml?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In order to actually deliver <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym>, the MIME type application/xhtml+<acronym title="eXtensible Markup Language">XML</acronym> or text/xml is required. Without this MIME type, the advantages of <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym> are irrelevant.</p></blockquote>
<p>What advantages do you lose by serving it as text/html instead of&nbsp;application/xhtml+<acronym title="eXtensible Markup Language">XML</acronym>?</p>
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