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	<title>Comments on: Is a br tag semantic?</title>
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		<title>By: Joe Dolson</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/comment-page-1/#comment-36857</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Dolson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Oct 2010 13:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/#comment-36857</guid>
		<description>@Kevin Yes, technically the &lt;code&gt;address&lt;/code&gt; element is intended to represent information about the author of a document. It can be argued, of course, that if you&#039;re enclosing a full business address, including the business name, that what you&#039;re enclosing is the contact information for the substantive document author. But it&#039;s not entirely accurate. 

So it depends, in my view; there are cases when using &lt;code&gt;address&lt;/code&gt; for an address is appropriate; but it is not appropriate in all cases. 

As far as &lt;code&gt;br&lt;/code&gt; goes, as I state above, line breaks do carry semantic meaning in the division of content. I think that a &lt;code&gt;br&lt;/code&gt; is appropriate at any point where the text is more easily understood by the insertion of a line break. 

In your case specifically, as long as the author of the quote is also wrapped in a &lt;code&gt;cite&lt;/code&gt; element, I think you&#039;re fine. I&#039;ve done that myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kevin Yes, technically the <code>address</code> element is intended to represent information about the author of a document. It can be argued, of course, that if you&#8217;re enclosing a full business address, including the business name, that what you&#8217;re enclosing is the contact information for the substantive document author. But it&#8217;s not entirely&nbsp;accurate. </p>
<p>So it depends, in my view; there are cases when using <code>address</code> for an address is appropriate; but it is not appropriate in all&nbsp;cases. </p>
<p>As far as <code>br</code> goes, as I state above, line breaks do carry semantic meaning in the division of content. I think that a <code>br</code> is appropriate at any point where the text is more easily understood by the insertion of a line&nbsp;break. </p>
<p>In your case specifically, as long as the author of the quote is also wrapped in a <code>cite</code> element, I think you&#8217;re fine. I&#8217;ve done that&nbsp;myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Frey</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/comment-page-1/#comment-36852</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Frey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Oct 2010 08:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/#comment-36852</guid>
		<description>I know this is an old post. I was looking for information on the br tag because I&#039;m wondering about citing an author of a quote within the blockquote tag. I thought a line break would make the most sense, particularly because it&#039;s not just the quote author, but also his position, his company, and the date. Commas just don&#039;t seem to do justice when it comes to the aesthetics.

Also, I see some comments about the address tag. It was my understanding that this tag was meant to encapsulate a document&#039;s author information, and not a street address. Is that correct? If it is, does that make using the tag for a street address LESS semantic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this is an old post. I was looking for information on the br tag because I&#8217;m wondering about citing an author of a quote within the blockquote tag. I thought a line break would make the most sense, particularly because it&#8217;s not just the quote author, but also his position, his company, and the date. Commas just don&#8217;t seem to do justice when it comes to the&nbsp;aesthetics.</p>
<p>Also, I see some comments about the address tag. It was my understanding that this tag was meant to encapsulate a document&#8217;s author information, and not a street address. Is that correct? If it is, does that make using the tag for a street address LESS&nbsp;semantic?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/comment-page-1/#comment-35769</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/#comment-35769</guid>
		<description>Just curious, would you consider  semantic for code. Even though there is a &lt;code&gt; tag for this already, is seems more appropriate to me to surround an entire code snippet within a &lt;code&gt; tag and then  each individual line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just curious, would you consider  semantic for code. Even though there is a <code> tag for this already, is seems more appropriate to me to surround an entire code snippet within a </code><code> tag and then  each individual&nbsp;line.</code></p>
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		<title>By: Kenny</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/comment-page-1/#comment-24003</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 12:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/#comment-24003</guid>
		<description>I agree with the above statement 100%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the above statement&nbsp;100%.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Dolson</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/comment-page-1/#comment-23806</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Dolson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/#comment-23806</guid>
		<description>It seems like the point is, ultimately, that there are situations where a &lt;code&gt;br&lt;/code&gt; is the only practical way of creating a needed separation. Barring the creation of numerous new elements to suit every situation where you might need a line break --- such as &lt;code&gt;line&lt;/code&gt; for poetry, &lt;code&gt;street&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code&gt;city&lt;/code&gt; for addresses, etc. --- the only practical means of enforcing an expected line break &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; &lt;code&gt;br&lt;/code&gt;. 

I think the difficulty is largely with a human tendency to perceive that only substance contains meaning: &lt;code&gt;br&lt;/code&gt; is an element which provides meaning through empty space. 

Maybe. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems like the point is, ultimately, that there are situations where a <code>br</code> is the only practical way of creating a needed separation. Barring the creation of numerous new elements to suit every situation where you might need a line break&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;- such as <code>line</code> for poetry, <code>street</code> and <code>city</code> for addresses, etc.&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;- the only practical means of enforcing an expected line break <em>is</em>&nbsp;<code>br</code>. </p>
<p>I think the difficulty is largely with a human tendency to perceive that only substance contains meaning: <code>br</code> is an element which provides meaning through empty&nbsp;space. </p>
<p>Maybe. <img src='http://www.joedolson.com/articles/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/comment-page-1/#comment-23805</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/#comment-23805</guid>
		<description>This is a difficult one. I&#039;m a bit of a CSS purist, but having said that using br tags have remained in my repertoire.

I guess the conclusion is, it&#039;s a personal choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a difficult one. I&#8217;m a bit of a <abbr title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</abbr> purist, but having said that using br tags have remained in my&nbsp;repertoire.</p>
<p>I guess the conclusion is, it&#8217;s a personal&nbsp;choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Dolson</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/comment-page-1/#comment-15238</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Dolson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 19:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/#comment-15238</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
I believe a good way of ascertaining the semantic value of a line break is turning off CSS - at least for those that are skeptical.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Best way of putting that I&#039;ve heard --- clearly, if a passage makes no sense without a line break, it must have a line break.  If there is no available markup which makes more semantic sense for the context, a line break is the best semantic choice.

Thanks for your comment!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
I believe a good way of ascertaining the semantic value of a line break is turning off <abbr title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</abbr> - at least for those that are&nbsp;skeptical.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Best way of putting that I&#8217;ve heard&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;- clearly, if a passage makes no sense without a line break, it must have a line break.  If there is no available markup which makes more semantic sense for the context, a line break is the best semantic&nbsp;choice.</p>
<p>Thanks for your&nbsp;comment!</p>
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		<title>By: brandaggio</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/comment-page-1/#comment-15237</link>
		<dc:creator>brandaggio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 19:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/#comment-15237</guid>
		<description>A &lt;code&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/code&gt; is semantic if your rendered page calls for a line break.

I believe a good way of ascertaining the semantic value of a line break is turning off CSS - at least for those that are skeptical.

There is no &quot;fence&quot; to be on so to speak - either you call for a line break (as you might if using an old fashioned typewriter) or you don&#039;t.

If you actually have something that constitutes a paragraph you of course use the &lt;code&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/code&gt;  tag - but unlike a &lt;code&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/code&gt; you wouldn&#039;t do it for the space/break it creates. If you have something that falls short of a &lt;code&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/code&gt; then use a &lt;code&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/code&gt; or &lt;code&gt;&lt;span&gt;&lt;/code&gt; depending, something that would not imply that what is being wrapped is something it is _not_.

To reiterate, the semantic value of a line break is that it is a break - whatever the context may be - it does not _have_ to be a poem or address, though those are sensible uses for the tag as it were.

There really is no ambiguity about as much as I used to think there was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A <code>&lt;br&gt;</code> is semantic if your rendered page calls for a line&nbsp;break.</p>
<p>I believe a good way of ascertaining the semantic value of a line break is turning off <abbr title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</abbr> - at least for those that are&nbsp;skeptical.</p>
<p>There is no &#8220;fence&#8221; to be on so to speak - either you call for a line break (as you might if using an old fashioned typewriter) or you&nbsp;don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>If you actually have something that constitutes a paragraph you of course use the <code>&lt;p&gt;</code>  tag - but unlike a <code>&lt;br&gt;</code> you wouldn&#8217;t do it for the space/break it creates. If you have something that falls short of a <code>&lt;p&gt;</code> then use a <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> or <code>&lt;span&gt;</code> depending, something that would not imply that what is being wrapped is something it is&nbsp;_not_.</p>
<p>To reiterate, the semantic value of a line break is that it is a break - whatever the context may be - it does not _have_ to be a poem or address, though those are sensible uses for the tag as it&nbsp;were.</p>
<p>There really is no ambiguity about as much as I used to think there&nbsp;was.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Dolson</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/comment-page-1/#comment-11193</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Dolson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 21:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/#comment-11193</guid>
		<description>A recent conversation on the GAWDS discussion list brought up a number of interesting points on the break tag, which I thought I&#039;d append here as a comment.

First, some of my own:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
I think sometimes we question whether &lt;code&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/code&gt; is semantic because it has no content and therefore seems not to be structural.  However, separation of content seems to me to be something which is inherently structural.  A &lt;code&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/code&gt; provides delineation between two objects although it may not contain any content itself. This separation is a perfectly valid way of delineating structure. There may be other ways (placing each line of poetry within a &lt;code&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/code&gt;, for example), but they are not structurally superior and add to the overall bulk of code being used.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Also, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.smiffysplace.com&quot;&gt;Matthew Smith&lt;/a&gt; discussed how he feels that the &lt;code&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/code&gt; is a semantic element: (in reference to an address)

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Our &lt;code&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/code&gt; has semantic significance, acthing this time as a field delimiter in a data structure.  It acts as a separator between fields in a record.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And in general:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
...a line break is a form of text delimiter, if you like, a type of punctuation.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Others made their own points, but these particularly stood out for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A recent conversation on the GAWDS discussion list brought up a number of interesting points on the break tag, which I thought I&#8217;d append here as a&nbsp;comment.</p>
<p>First, some of my&nbsp;own:</p>
<blockquote><p>
I think sometimes we question whether <code>&lt;br /&gt;</code> is semantic because it has no content and therefore seems not to be structural.  However, separation of content seems to me to be something which is inherently structural.  A <code>&lt;br /&gt;</code> provides delineation between two objects although it may not contain any content itself. This separation is a perfectly valid way of delineating structure. There may be other ways (placing each line of poetry within a <code>&lt;div&gt;</code>, for example), but they are not structurally superior and add to the overall bulk of code being&nbsp;used.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Also, <a href="http://www.smiffysplace.com">Matthew Smith</a> discussed how he feels that the <code>&lt;br /&gt;</code> is a semantic element: (in reference to an&nbsp;address)</p>
<blockquote><p>
Our <code>&lt;br /&gt;</code> has semantic significance, acthing this time as a field delimiter in a data structure.  It acts as a separator between fields in a&nbsp;record.
</p></blockquote>
<p>And in&nbsp;general:</p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8230;a line break is a form of text delimiter, if you like, a type of&nbsp;punctuation.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Others made their own points, but these particularly stood out for&nbsp;me.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Dolson</title>
		<link>http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/comment-page-1/#comment-6748</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Dolson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joedolson.com/articles/2007/01/is-a-br-tag-semantic/#comment-6748</guid>
		<description>@Alfred - I like the way you think!  Interesting to imagine a line break as a form of punctuation - a short pause; a breath.

@Karl - Microformats aren&#039;t a bad way to go either.  I just prefer a sparser code - unless I have a particular reason to employ microformats, I&#039;m inclined to go for a method which minimizes the amount of code needed (both HTML and CSS.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Alfred - I like the way you think!  Interesting to imagine a line break as a form of punctuation - a short pause; a&nbsp;breath.</p>
<p>@Karl - Microformats aren&#8217;t a bad way to go either.  I just prefer a sparser code - unless I have a particular reason to employ microformats, I&#8217;m inclined to go for a method which minimizes the amount of code needed (both <abbr title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</abbr> and&nbsp;<abbr title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</abbr>.)</p>
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