Comments on: Using standards doesn’t make it right

By: Joe Dolson

Joe Dolson — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 05:58:59 +0000

…especially the title of the article and the author’s conclusion later in the dialog: “As such, using standards is right — period.”

Indeed, there’s a very significant difference between the statements — - while using standards is absolutely “right,” they do not in themselves make a web site “right.”

Thanks, Sailesh.

By: Sailesh Panchang

Sailesh Panchang — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 03:10:00 +0000

Amusing exchange between Joe and Ted! - especially the title of the article and the author’s conclusion later in the dialog: “As such, using standards is right — period.”
Software standards serve the same purpose as standards for any other product, namely:
- set an acceptable / minimum level of performance which is generally agreed to and ratified by diverse interested groups; and
- allow a range of interdependent products to interoperate.
Thanks,
Sailesh Panchang
Deque Systems

By: SneakyWho_am_i

SneakyWho_am_i — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:16:30 +0000

Yeah go ahead. Just my two cents there. I wasn’t trying for a pun but once I saw it I let it lie.Keep up the good work, your articles (posts?) are all very useful or interesting (often both)

By: Joe Dolson

Joe Dolson — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:13:33 +0000

It’s a hopeless cook, but it’s pretty good for smashing windows in an emergency.

Can I slap you for the really awful pun? But seriously, thanks for contributing! (Whoever you are…)

By: SneakyWho_am_i

SneakyWho_am_i — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:47:40 +0000

Very true and valid, this is all that standards are, an enabler for interoperation.
If your code is 100% valid and standards compliant, and rendered consistently in three browsers (in agreement with spec) and not an older browser, then you can say that this browser is not conforming to that (part of) that standard.

Interoperability is good, so standards are good. Is standards compliant software good?

YES… No…. Uhm…. It depends on what you’re using it for, really.

Internet Explorer is a fantastic piece of software, for example, but it’s a hopeless web browser. It can be good in proprietary contexts such as providing a familiar COM interface for file transfers, or a help system, but as a web browser it’s utter rubbish because it doesn’t understand standards.

It’s not that it’s bad software, but it is a bad browser. It’s good (but not as a browser). It’s GOOD, but it’s not APPROPRIATE.

It’s not appropriate to use Internet Explorer as a web browser - that’s just silly.

It’s a hopeless cook, but it’s pretty good for smashing windows in an emergency.

By: Mike Cherim

Mike Cherim — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:51:55 +0000

Great article Joe. In my eyes standards are absolutely essential to anything that is to move forward and become something. That’s why we all post using the same protocols at Accessites (plus consistency is good for accessibility). But standards are also fallible. If, for example, one of our posting protocols is flawed the standard must change. So while standards aren’t always right — - which is why they are continually reviews and improved from time to time — - the cohesiveness they ensure is a blessing. Look at the automobile industry. Lots of standards, and look how far that industry has come.

I tried your recipe. It was good but the meringue was wicked crunchy.

By: Joe Dolson

Joe Dolson — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:44:43 +0000

Fair enough.

Right and wrong are value judgements based upon perspective.

On this we certainly agree — - we simply are providing different perspectives. I have no problem with that.

By: tedd

tedd — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:28:30 +0000

I agree that not using standards is wrong. As such, using standards is right — - period.

If you want to argue that some bozo developed a web site and while it follows standards, it’s a horrible web site then that’s your opinion. My opinion is that whatever the bozo wanted to say, he at least delivered it correctly.

True, the value of one’s work is determined by more considerations than just adhering to standards, but that has nothing to do with right and wrong. Right and wrong are value judgements based upon perspective. For example, from my perspective your title is simply nonsense and your article is rather pointless BUT you delivered your point using standards and thus you did it right.

Let’s just agree to disagree on this.

Cheers, tedd

By: Joe Dolson

Joe Dolson — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:20:10 +0000

The title says, explicitly, that “Using Standards Doesn’t Make It Right” — - it does NOT say that you shouldn’t use standards. Using standards ALONE as a measurement of correctness is not a solution. Using standards as an element of correctness is fine.

Not using standards is wrong — - period. But that doesn’t make using standards RIGHT. Whether a web site is well designed is not a simple binary decision toggled by the application of web standards.

By: tedd

tedd — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:00:18 +0000

Yes, one can create an absolutely horrible site — but to make it even worse, they could do it ignoring standards. Is that not correct?

And if that is correct, then following standards is a good and appropriate practice — which is contrary to your title. Thus the reason why I say we disagree.

Argue as you may, but if I have to review another programmers code, then I prefer to review those who conform to standards as compared to those who don’t. To me, my life is made simpler by standards and simpler is always good.